英国CELESTION（百变龙）玩家俱乐部 !

henry余

原帖由 CHLim 于 2008-6-28 10:53 发表
Henry,

Not sure about covering the speakers with cloth or wood. Too much toe in, you will get a "V" soundstage and a sharper imaging. Isolation is critical. If you spike up the speakers, gone is th ...

I totally agree in near field listening theory, that's my best experience in duition, esp in a small room.  I could not tell you how good when I did it  for years with my AR3a back to the 80s, the sound stage is wider than the speakers and depth, oh man, i may say 30 feet (u dun hv to believe it...)

another case is the cabassey in Goldstring (a HK dealer with 2.5m x 3m "showroom") driving by Burmester 838(?). Playing Flemingo Fever (M&K), the guitar singer's mouth just in front of my like I can smell his breath, woo, terrific!  let alone the stunning vib by stepping of platform.

Also agree with the guru.  My phylosophy also mix and match...

As of the tweeter heigh, do u experienced that sound stage in some record is higher than others?

when I play 蔡琴“试音”， first cut (forgot the song name) a hand drum comes out 30cm above the top of each speaker, right then left...Great!

nice to chat with you, CHLim.

MF10

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祝福好友！

CHLim

Hi Henry,

Thanks and you are welcomed. Somehow, I get the feeling that many do not know what I talking about due to language. Are you from Hong Kong?

It is always a painstaking task to get an ideal listening position. It is frustrating sometimes especially if you do not have a "golden ratio" room to begin with. That is why nearfield the best position for less than ideal room for it has taken the sound reflection out of the equation.

I have got a small room 9' x 8' and tried 2 positions that I possibly can. Conventional position soundstage was nothing great. You got a 4' wider and 5' deeper soundstage. Hence, I thought maybe I could scarifice the depth and try the other position which is close to the front wall and wider apart. What have I got here, Naim sound. Images are forward, great lateral imaging but 2' depth. Ok, I can live with that. Now, the worst part, even thought I get the lateral separation, I do not get the "DEFINATION". This is low fi, man. I can not follow the flow of music when many instruments come to play like everything glued together.

I concur with dingmr that in nearfield listening, the imaging is best when the tweeter is at the same height with the ear. Sitting further, slightly high tweeter will be better. Again, SL6s proved its worth with the ability to image above the height of speaker.

So, I will have to reposition back to my previous position and toe out. Hopefully, it will project a wider soundstage.  

MF10,
Tsingdao is a nice beer. I think you have got the Foundation stand there. Have you try 600 sub? The sub looks strange.

See Xindak, Bada, Spark, Cayin, Vincent, Bewitched etc hits the local hifi scene. Still, not cheap here.

CHLim

Sleeples night.

Never tried AR3a and Cabasse. The late AR3a was redesigned by Ken Kantor, NHT designer. Was not keen with NHT products and they are bass heavy. AR3a is known for power demanding and not an easy speaker to tame. French speakers have the French sounding, hi is a tad zealous.
I was told that HK is the second largest hifi market outside of US. Sensible hifi? I do not know but they change gear as fast they change cloth. It was due to land scarcity, the listening room is also less ideal. These guys are master in acoustics treatment. Compliment![s:20]      

There is an article in our local mag, that associates fate with hifi much like horoscope. This is a big joke! Which is the most popular hifi mag in China and Hong Kong? Taiwan has Audio Art, Japan has StereoSound.

henry余

原帖由 CHLim 于 2008-7-1 02:09 发表
Sleeples night.

Never tried AR3a and Cabasse. The late AR3a was redesigned by Ken Kantor, NHT designer. Was not keen with NHT products and they are bass heavy. AR3a is known for power demanding and ...

like bass or not, it all about preference, but the sound stage and the amosphere is great.  They are power sucker, yes.  I put in 80w, but the double bass in Orch still showed a bit fat.

about the sl6, the producer made the sl600 with areo alloy(!) cabinet for a reason, the cabinet of the 6 is weaker.  That's why I suggested you try wrapping the cab to find out whether it's the culprit, then we may find a solution. (most likely, esp when you do near-field, that means you're likely hear more cab vib than in normal distance, the vib sum up together in the centre that put all image together)

MF10 is correct on the tweeter level.  Well, what I meant is on top of the speaker, not really just above the speak.  Oh yes, some record the image even goes behind my back, u know what i mean? goes infront of the speakes, not behind them! Sorry for too emotional here...HiFi is my real loveer....sigh...

yes, I'm from HK and live in Shanghai now since 2001.  I guess it's true HK is the 2nd largest market, esp density-wise.   Like all the HiFi freaks in the world some sensible, some may not.  I try to squeese the most out of what's in hand instead of changing "clothes".  If you read Chinese, u may wanna see how ugly and crazy I made my baby becomes.  http://www.jd-bbs.com/viewthread.php?tid=608747&extra=page%3D1&page=11

（the following in Chinese, dun wanna be looks like ad, and also our folks here may know more than I)
我不知道中国最受欢迎的是哪一本：AV前线，音响技术，高传真音响？ （还有一两本吧）
但觉得在香港，最受欢迎的应该是“发烧音响”，虽然越来越商业，越来越假，但写得还是最有娱乐性。（不是真实性）
主要卖点：古典Hifi如：西电，马兰士； 励磁喇叭...Paragon...  然后写广告（其实全世界都有这种情况）

好像我也在卖他的广告了，就此打住吧。

If u dun mind, I may reply in Chinese with your thoughts, just to share to more friends here.

henry余

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原帖由 dingmr911 于 2008-6-27 23:24 发表
" a more precise and solid imaging in the expense of soundstage width.  "
That's what I'm looking for[s:97]
But this kind of position will make the whole layout of the orchestra sound disorder. So  ...

对不起，放完周末看漏了你的帖。

我通常是用内拐来调音色的，好像你说内拐可以多些高音。

而高音的高度，我是从来都是放耳平，因为这样的声场不会太低。每个唱片的声场高低不一样已经太烦了，我宁愿把蔡琴的嘴巴放高一点（一笑 ！！)

你说的近场是离耳朵多近？少于一米么？ 是否高音跟低频和不起来？ 是否可以试一下耳朵在两个单眼之间？ sl6 跟 sl600 的分频点在哪？

噢！忘了考虑一个事儿，。。。

CHLim ， 你听音乐的时候你头的后面离你的背墙多少？（也就是喇叭单元面对的墙）

CHLim

My listening position is about 1ft from the back ball in the conventional, my tried and failed position is close to back wall (with sound board). Tried repositioning for almost 2 days and yet do not get the ideal imaging:Q , the imaging seems to be at the left size. This is due to the 2 differrent walls, concrete and bookshelve. Perhaps you can help. Try to post photo but exceed 256kb after compressed it.
So, pretty good stuff you have there on yout TAD300. These are very revealing speakers and very fussy with amp.
Are you suggesting glueing high density board to SL6s as you did on TAD300? The weight of speaker is quite impressive suggesting good cabinet construction.

henry余

原帖由 CHLim 于 2008-7-2 09:11 发表
My listening position is about 1ft from the back ball in the conventional, my tried and failed position is close to back wall (with sound board). Tried repositioning for almost 2 days and yet do not g ...

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两年前，我的喇叭也是所有东西堆在中央，音场很窄。后来加了板以后就宽了，所以提议你先用厚绒覆盖，确定是否箱子震动影响结像，近场听音这情况会比较明显，场地的堂音给箱声掩盖就觉得空间小了。左右箱的震动相加，音像就聚在两箱子之间。

肯定后才想对策。
（但我没时间购材料，只用手头的东西，做法也太难看，你肯定有更好看的方案。）

我的理想是：用玻璃把上下左右加强，玻璃跟箱板之间做成真空状态：
用很薄的半流体如凡士林填充，（可以先包保鲜纸，那觉得不好或要卖掉时可以容易清理干净，凡士林更难泡进SL6的木板），再用PVC贴包起来如下面的示意图.


这是最便宜、最硬的物料，只是容易打烂，危险，家里有小孩不行。
玻璃加工可以做的很漂亮。

MF10

祝福好友！

MF10

祝福好友！

CHLim

MF,

青岛啤酒棒, but quality differ from province to province as I was told.

So frustrated, I decided to rest for few days before starting to tune the speakers.

I isolate the speaker, so no problem with lateral soudstage but more of the room interactions.

Any of you guys heard of LFD amp?

tou120815

[s:15]

henry余

[quote]原帖由 CHLim 于 2008-7-2 21:41 发表
MF,

青岛啤酒棒, but quality differ from province to province as I was told.

So frustrated, I decided to rest for few days before starting to tune the speakers.

I isolate the speaker, so no problem with lateral soudstage but more of the room interactions.


Oh, 那就烦啦！

henry余

原帖由 MF10 于 2008-7-2 18:09 发表

你好，henry余。我看了你的图，如果房间条件一定的情况下，这样处理会使声音变得更清晰，低频量感增加，但是可能会失去声音的基本平衡，SL6温暖松润感觉会消失。只是个人看法。

这是有可能的，箱子的渲染有可能是设计的一部分。真是两难！

我加强了箱体后，感到单一乐器的（如提琴、Sax）的音符（夹杂发声时的杂声如弓擦弦，小号的吹气、Sax的口水声等）、乐器共鸣、场地背及天花的反射，逐一出现，互相分离。（原来是拖泥带水，互相拥有）

我个人对定位及现场感极度发烧，一般的步骤是先搞音场、摆位。（SL6的素质应该有小型书架优点：定位及音场。）我觉得合格的功放对定位影响较少、对高低两端影响较大，除非讯源（如CD）不好。

然后用不同的线材（电源、讯号线、喇叭线）、功放、电子管等来调节音色的。如果不能达到我心目中的目标，就是器材的极限了，要考虑保留喇叭还是更换功放了。

房间条件嘛......那麻烦就不是一般，是极端啦！

zgl9922

有时间一定到青岛老弟那去欣赏一下 以后还得请老弟多多指教啊 有可能的话我也收一对SL600听听