KEF Reference 1 meta—我的客厅系统调整之路（2.3更新：科hi佬的至宝——dirac）

nsx-r

古月HN 发表于 2024-7-10 14:23
有条件尝试其他前端设备的搭配方案，或者是再加一台后级做双放大的极致玩法，获得更高层次的享受！{:1_13 ...

正在测试不同的前端验证一些主客观的对照及想法。

nsx-r

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后记三、新老参考的听感再对比与测量
最近把旧箱子也搬到了新家，放置在了书房，终于可以ab试听了，但是由于不在同一房间，所以有参考意义的可能只有音色。至于三频能量分布（尤其是低频），空间感以及音像的精确度与房间关系太大，因此没有对比意义。
我跟朋友分别对两对音箱进行了聆听，总体感受是一致的：
ref1m（新参考）更柔和，声音更顺滑润泽，优点是耐听度更好，两个钟头的聆听之后完全不觉得耳朵不舒服，还有继续听下去的意愿，缺点是不如现在很多主流音箱那样抓耳，第一印象不够深刻；

关于测量，因为客厅需要照顾到更多听音位，因此皇帝位的听音点在音箱离轴大约10-15度之间。除了房间驻波影响低频有个43hz的峰明显影响听感之外，中高频曲线总体符合一个平直频响的箱子在普通房间内的表现，呈现一个斜率平稳的逐渐下降的趋势。也如同第三方测试机构erin's auido corner建议的那样，很可能听音点正对中高音轴（离轴0度）表现会更佳，因为这样中高音衰减会更缓和一些，适合更激烈一点的口味。


ref201.2（旧参考）更通透明亮，质感更强烈，优点是第一印象更吸引人，缺点是声音比起新参考略显干燥，且两个小时的聆听稍许累耳，想休息一下。

关于测量，由于书房比较小，只用照顾一个皇帝位，因此离轴大概在10度或者不到。之前试过正对轴上，感觉似乎过于躁辣不好听。从曲线看，受限于房间尺寸，驻波频率被提到了耳朵更敏感的60hz处，对听感的影响明显比客厅的40hz严重，因此后来用上了auralic数字播放机内置的参量EQ对这个60hz的峰进行了压制。（表扬一下auralic，这么古老的机器居然也没被遗忘升级固件，给了三个点的参量均衡能力）
eq前的曲线

eq修正后的预测曲线


关于空间的题外话，小房间（尤其是缺乏声装的小房间）相对大房间除了驻波频率会提升之外，在空间感和定位感上也有一定劣势，并且在小房间内听音位置的变化对听感的影响会非常敏感。以我书房为例，耳朵向前位移15公分之后，能明显感受到音像聚焦的变化，而在客厅则不明显。

tonycaoyi

nsx-r 发表于 2024-7-10 23:51
后记三、新老参考的听感再对比与测量
最近把旧箱子也搬到了新家，放置在了书房，终于可以ab试听了，但是由 ...

（并且在小房间内听音位置的变化对听感的影响会非常敏感。以我书房为例，耳朵向前位移15公分之后，能明显感受到音像聚焦的变化）

那是你的系统调整的有问题。

blueskyonhead

第一对音箱就是kef

yingxiongzhu

    那么大的客厅足够放2台后级了。我的感觉和前面某位刚好相反，HIFI就是个玄学的东西。
    其实可能影响的方面很多，从成本的角度出发尝试调整可能比较省钱；比如尝试一下其他电源滤波器，线材，然后是前级；另外房间的湿度可能也会有一定影响，毕竟音箱是木质的。

nsx-r

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yingxiongzhu 发表于 2024-8-2 11:37
那么大的客厅足够放2台后级了。我的感觉和前面某位刚好相反，HIFI就是个玄学的东西。
    其实可能影 ...

说玄学就是个经验学加心理学了，没有参照也没有底，有钱随意折腾图一乐无妨，对于喜欢钻研一下声学基础，且资金有限则不适合了。就目前来说，我知道目前影响最大一个因素没有解决，也没法解决，那就是环境。一来客厅实质对中低频吸收的吸引体实在太少导致中低频能量比较大，再个就是大落地玻璃滑门的隔音不是特别好，照顾了景色就没法照顾听觉，导致晚上楼下没车时声音信噪比明显好于白天楼下车水马龙的时候（我之前测过，白天噪声比晚上大几个db）。

目前已经测试了好几种搭配：
剑桥Edge NQ+Edge W；
剑桥Edge NQ+佛西p1+Edge W；
剑桥Edge NQ+拉菲尔 CP65；
声韵altair + hypex NC400；

还没测，打算测：
Edge NQ+    （佛西p1+edge W推中高，NC400推低音）
Edge NQ+      (拉菲尔cp65推中高  ，Edge W推低音）

有喜欢的有不那么喜欢的，后继慢慢说。

古月HN

nsx-r 发表于 2024-8-4 13:08
说玄学就是个经验学加心理学了，没有参照也没有底，有钱随意折腾图一乐无妨，对于喜欢钻研一下声学基础， ...

双推效果好多了吧？

咖喱凉

感谢楼主的分享

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nsx-r

后记四   搭配与优化 1
到目前为止，与ref1m搭配过的组合有四组，分别是：
1、剑桥Edge NQ（音源前级）-XLR->  Edge W（后级）
2、剑桥Edge NQ  (音源前级) -RCA-> 弗西 p1（胆前级）-RCA> Edge W（后级）
3、剑桥Edge NQ  (音源前级) -RCA> 拉菲尔 Cp65（胆合并机）
4、声韵Altair  (音源前级) -XLR> Hypex NC400（后级）

简单归纳一下四种搭配的特点：
搭配1  声音非常柔，非常顺，解析力非常强，但解析感较差。声音整体感觉幽静客气，有时候过于客气，显得缺乏激情。另外，低频能量很强劲。
搭配2  中高频存在感强，声音的质感和纹理感相对搭配1明显出来了，解析感明显改善。声音整体感觉平衡且开放，但弱音的解析力不如搭配1。
搭配3  声音很古典，非常厚实，但绝不糊，中高频在某些频段（尤其是女声的高频段）质感异常强烈，速度感一般，解析感尚可，解析力就不突出了。
搭配4  整体风格跟搭配1类似，也是很柔顺，但背景更黑，声音更凝聚，在几种搭配中有最佳的冲击感和速度感，有着可怕的解析力，解析感一般。补充一句，由于altair可以解码DSD512，播放顶级规格发烧录音时，中高频（听觉上的高频）就像打磨得非常细致的针尖在最尖的地方被稍许磨成了弧形，亮而不刺，印象深刻。

个人喜好：  搭配2 ≥ 搭配4 > 搭配3 ≥ 搭配1

这里多谈一句关于搭配1和搭配2，两者的区别仅在于前后级之间串了一个加之不到200的胆前级（对，你没看错，不是20000，也不是2000，而是200！），胆前级的音调平衡设为高频+1db，其他不做调整，原配的曙光6k4胆换成了GE的5654W。从数据上讲，EDGE W后级的XLR输入比RCA输入底噪更低，在人耳敏感频段大约低6个db的样子（数据来自fresh from the bench），而至于弗西P1，我是故意挑了这个牌子中失真较大的型号，标称0.1%的thd，远高于

0.0008%的

Edge NQ前级，甚至高于很多AB类后级。但从听感上说，这个信噪比更差的通道加上了失真更高的前级反而得到了更明亮更开放更通透的主观听感。为此我让媳妇也来盲听对比，通过Edge W后级的XLR/RCA切换拨钮在播放中随时切换，结果她也明显更喜欢搭配2。再次坚定了我之前的想法：适当的失真模式，恰到好处的失真量，更符合人的主观的听音喜好。  多一句嘴，p1原配的6k4胆完全不行，听感上声音很“呆”，不流畅，换为5654w之后声音一下子就自然了。后来才知道6k4是遥截止电子管，一般情况下不适于音频用途的。

下图是搭配1和搭配2的频响对比，搭配2通过胆的低频特性和EQ的高频设置得到了更为均衡的能量分布。同时，也可见人耳对于小Q值的哪怕是细微的调整都很敏感，对于大Q值的明显调整反而不敏感。

注：深色曲线是搭配1，淡色曲线是搭配2



线缆：xlr信号线  金宝hero，rca信号线   qed Reference 40，中高频喇叭线 金宝 8pr，低频喇叭线 qed xt25 bi-wire 做单线连接合并。

nsx-r

古月HN 发表于 2024-8-7 19:17
双推效果好多了吧？

这些天试了一下双推，高中低共用edge NQ作为音源，中高同轴用胆前级P1+AB类edge W驱动，低音用D类nc400驱动，用rew软件对齐同轴单元和低频单元的相位，校准了edge w和nc400的增益（fosi P1调整音量，以确保跟edge W的输出与nc400增益一致）。

1、就测试数据上来说，有点意外的是nc400推的低音比之前胆前石后（p1+edge w）单推的失真低了很多，我原以为胆前级中高音失真比较大引入较多泛音，结果相比中高音，低音的失真更大。




2、就听感而言，双推情况下的低音明显展示了NC400的特征：力道猛烈，下潜深沉，扎实；然而中高音似乎变化不大。不过就整体听感而言，我更喜欢p1+edge w单推的组合，虽然P1+EDGE W低音力道和扎实感不如NC400，但与其中高音配合却显得非常协调，整体呈现出一种宽松自然，看来一定程度的低音的失真确实能够带来“宽松感”

后边天气太热，就没有去实验与胆合并机双推的效果了，因为目前的EDGE NQ->P1->EDGE W的配合，我已经相当满足，可以安心听音乐了。

nsx-r

咖喱凉 发表于 2024-8-8 04:21
感谢楼主的分享

isee.weishi.qq.com/ws/app-pages/share/index.html?&id=7ktQmbIFN1SBJnkSm

感谢支持

nsx-r

结语：
      箱子到手折腾已经半年有余，从最初的失望到其间的意外又到现在的满足，又一次深刻体会了发烧路之曲折。
      对于这对箱子的外观设计，我是越看越喜欢，尤其是在大面积散射光的衬托下，那颗香槟色的同轴没有了冷冽的金属感，呈现一种柔和的暖调，太好看了！……说来也奇怪，ref1m和R3meta外观区别其实不大，但正是铝+亚克力制正面板带来的平整质感与边缘线条的锐利感，香槟色同轴在色彩上的恰到好处的点缀，最终呈现出截然不同的视觉感受。真心说来，除了表面的漆工我觉得还有提升的空间以外，其他真是已经毫无怨言了。

      对于声音，这个箱子真就是照妖镜那种类型，箱子本身是非常纯洁非常细腻的，没有什么个性和主张。好处是它能非常敏锐的反应前端搭配上的变化，只要愿意折腾，基本上可以随心所欲的搭配出自己想要的声音；坏处就是费心费力不说，还可能会走很多弯路。不过我个人觉得还是好处多一些，毕竟器材没有味道可以自己想办法加想办法调，而自带味道万一不是自己喜欢的，那可是祛除不了的。
      


p.s  箱子的灵敏度真的太低，我用拉菲尔50瓦的推挽胆机CP65推老款ref201.2，除了音乐在大动态低频的时候UV表针会有些跳动，平时几乎是静止的，而CP65推ref1m时，一首稀松平常的曲子，UV表针一直在欢快跳动。

古月HN

nsx-r 发表于 2024-9-9 01:47
结语：
      箱子到手折腾已经半年有余，从最初的失望到其间的意外又到现在的满足，又一次深刻体会了发烧 ...

表针跳动代表了什么呢？颜值担当啊！有一股前卫的时尚感！

nsx-r

古月HN 发表于 2024-9-9 16:27
表针跳动代表了什么呢？颜值担当啊！有一股前卫的时尚感！

uv表就是个功率计，摆幅越大，代表当前输出功率越大。同样的听音音量，推ref1m的时候摆幅远远大于推ref201.2，可见新参考确实需要更大的功率来驱动。

gdmmnn

nsx-r 发表于 2024-6-19 14:40
jbl的15寸性格还是有区别的，要看厂商的调教：像S4700的2216nd特点就在于低频清晰，因为原厂调教的s4700 ...

JBL箱监听风格声音准确，与英国箱声染风格不同，看听者喜好，优势是低频，但中频有凹陷，不如西电、ALTEC，用西电线可以完全改变清峻的声音，西电古董线中频好，高低频稍差，西电八九十年代的线1064，1074三频均衡，古董西电线和现代西电线搭配，JBL可获得温暖迷人的中频。